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I could actually take both sides on this. It is stupid that a "civil service employee" has to wear their uniform they are supposed to wear when on military duty. But at the same time, in my opinion, ART's should have to conform to military dress and appearance standards as far as shaving/haircuts, after all, you ARE in the military. and we all signed up to be in the military and wear the uniform, and that's what they are making us do. Even active duty has gone through a lot of changes in the last 50 years, you expect no change? Someone comes along and sees something they don't like and changes it. That's what the military does. Can we call ourselves "civilians"? It's all diff pots of money, but the government still pays us whether we're in uniform or not. And no, we might not get the benifits, but go talk to people on the street that have been trying to find jobs and can't because of the economy. We're damn lucky to have jobs! I'm neither for or against this, but think about why you joined the military in the first place...

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As an ART supervisor I have no choice but to wear the uniform everyday whether I like it or not.

I am sympathetic to the ARTS on this issue and frankly with the lack of support from the AFGE I don't know why any ART would continue to pay dues to such an impotent organization.

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A short history lesson is in order here. In order for us to fully understand where and (more importantly) why we are today… we must understand our beginning. We were around 25 years of age and chosen for our enthusiasm, reliability, and strength. We usually assembled four times a year to train for fighting, and were ready for rapid deployment at the call to arms. We were not provided arms or uniforms. We equipped and armed ourselves and wore our own clothes. We trained right alongside of close friends, family and relatives. Our expertise suited the values of irregular warfare tactics, ...

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We were the 1645 Minutemen, 1765 Sons of Liberty, and the 1776 Patriots that brought independence, freedom and liberty to this land we continue to defend today; uniforms not required.

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Somebody in Air Force Reserve Command thought that civilian attire didn't give the spit-polish clean-shaven image he would like to see. Perhaps this person has forgotten his (or her) roots. Rivers of blood flowed from deeply dedicated men and women, many of whom wore no more than the hand sewn clothes on their backs, in the defense of independence, freedom and liberty for everyone living in this beautiful country.

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We are the United States Air Force Reserves. We are Air Reserve Technicians; ART’s. We wear our symbolic blue jeans, steel toe boots, and T-shirts proudly on the job; in a time honored tradition that dates back over 350 years. Make no mistake about our dedication to this great country, by judging the clothes on our backs. We freely chose this standard of living.

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Uniforms won’t change what we stand for.

Read your history folks.

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Continued...

I've recently recieved an e-mail about the status of negotiation of this issue -- I cannot believe this issue hasn't been laid to rest. It's quite obvious that a military uniform is not required to complete the mission (it hasn't been for so many years now), and it's also very apparent how unpopular this idea is with the people it will affect. I would like for the ART force to be respected and trusted to be the consumate professionals we are and have been, regardless of dress.

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In there PDF file it states The ART is not merely a civilian working for the military. He is a part of the military.

If that is the true foundation for this issue, should it not also be addressed that the MILIARY does not pay for health care, retirement is after 20 years regardless of age and that there are several other benefits that the MILITARY has that should be addressed along with this one.

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I agree! We should not be forced to wear the uniform. Under the policy of wearing the military uniform I will be the same as an active duty member except for pay, benifits and retirment. Active duty retires at 20, a civilian retires at 30+ years. It's a known fact (due to recent activations) active duty brings home with housing and meals aprox. $600 to $800 more every two weeks than the average WG does here at Maxwell. Active duty gets free medical and dental. A civilian pays for his/hers medical and dental.

They want me to be everything active duty for 1/3 to 1/2 longer and with no matching pay, benifits or retiremnet that an active member gets. I love my job but this is going too far., Thanks but No thanks! I'll seek employment elsewhere if it passes.

Suggestion: If there must be a uniform then how about a dickies style uniform as worn by airlines such as FedEx. I'll wear that if they want me to.

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Two big factors - first is cost. There is going to be an initial increase in cost as worn and torn BDU's are replaced. We do not get a clothing allowance like active duty but exchange items one for one as needed. Increased wear & tear will drive up replacement costs to include T-shirts, boots, belts and hats. And after this surge in expense for the old type/style BDUs, we are all scheduled to get the new type/style digitized wash & wear uniforms in about a year which will cost even more money as they replace the BDU's T-shirts, boots, etc.

Second, in their letter they say part of the basis for doing this is that Air National Guard units all ready wear uniforms, but they don't say that Guard units also issue their members blue coveralls and the Guard member can wear either one at his option.

There are different sets of work rules for each status and I think that it would be confusing as to which rules are in effect.

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ART's have enough rules to keep straight as it is. Wearing a uniform while not on military orders would only add confusion as to who is in what status and what set of standards to abide by. When an ART is wearing civilian clothes, there is no doubt as to what status they're in and what rules apply to them.

We are ART's, not children. We are well aware of who is in charge, and what our duties and responsibilities are.

Question: Who is paying for this? The way it stands now, we have no clothing allowance and are essentially saving the Air Force money. If wearing the uniform is imposed upon us, it will then become a budget issue as well.

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I am a retired reservist & a former ART. This amounts to union busting. It is much more than just wearing a uniform, & the costs & effort for upkeep. It is about shifting these civilian employees into a military UCMJ type of legal environment. They lose rights & protections that way. Typically, these ARTs are often the leaders in their locals. That's why it's union busting. You marginalize, or remove them, from bargaining unit & other protections, then why should they even belong to a union such as AFGE. Trust me, for an ART, who is in uniform, he or she will be at a steep disadvatage when dealing with a military superior concerning a labor issue. Make no mistake about that! This is about more than uniforms.

If they get their way, then force them to give ARTs active duty benefits, such as a 20 year retirement & others.

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If in uniform we are held to military standards while still being held to the civilian standards. We are not payed equal to active duty and should not be required to wear the uniform unless in a military status. Military Legal (JAG) stated if in uniform we can receive a letter of counciling or reprimand even if not in status. It appears that would be double jeapardy since leadership can also punish a person on the civilian side at the same time. Members who would be our peers as a civilian could out rank us militarily and be allowed to direct us. This would cause additional confusion and discourse. I have a 24yr career with nothing negative in my records. I do not go against the grain. However, I believe what they are attempting is an unfair labor practice and I owe it to others to stand up for the future. I have and will continue to put on the uniform while in civilian status when I feel the mission deems it necessary or when asked in an appropriate manner.

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Being an ART for two years, I’ve noticed the struggle of the uniform issue. If I wear my uniform M-F to give the appearance of military member, I should have the benefits of a full time member. AFRC can’t have it both ways. With the addition of uniform requirements for civillians, are we going to have a clothing allowance as active duty?

The Navy has an identical “ART” program called Selected Reserve Forces for Full Time Support (FTS).

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If they don’t want to make us AGR’s, benchmark the Navy’s Full Time Support (FTS) program. Their reservists are paid either as weekend drillers (traditional reservist) or active duty reservists. Their program is exactly like the ART program INCLUDING all benefits of active duty. They provide training, administration support, work drill weekends, dental, medical, living allowances, yearly clothing allowances, housing, retirement, PCS options, and etc. They even have their own promotion and advancement category (active duty, FTS, and reserve). If they offer either programs, maybe it INCREASE retention of ARTS.

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There have been many good points made I believe. Agian alot of it goes around cost. Most of the ARTs that I know don't get their hair cut on base or don't get their uniforms dry cleaned here either. So what about the cost? If we are to have to wear the uniforms all the time gives us an allowance. There was a reserve unit in arizona this same thing happen to and the were given a $37 a month and they are entitled to a one for one uniform exchange. No give us this maybe just maybe it might be given a second chance. Also the benefits and respect. If i remeber correctly when we were in tech school we were told to treat the civilians as officers because of there pay grade. Should the same be asked of us even with the uniform on. If an reservist comes in as ex. a MSgt and talks to a civilian wearing the uniform that is of lower rank does he have that right if they out rank them. Just think on this please

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Wearing of the uniform for an ART that is in an Associate Wing presents another big problem. Most of the time the ARTS are higher ranking and hold more time in grade than their active duty counter part in the owning Active Duty Wing. In this case who would be in charge the active duty military who is the owning wing/organization or the reserve military person (ART in uniform) who again is higher ranking while in uniform.

The above situtation will cause many problems. If the ART has to wear a uniform then their rank and time in grade must also be honored.

Brent Reynolds from Dover Air Force Base Delaware.

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One view that was not mentioned was an ART assigned to an associate unit, I work hand in hand with Active duty during the week, If I wear my uniform I now will outrank many of my Active duty counterparts that are placed in positions of power, what will that do to the chain of command ??? Also my civilian position description places me in a non-supervisory position, but as soon as I put my uniform one, now I become one ??? I think one of my biggest concern is being in uniform, but not in any Military status, can I legally enforce UCMJ actions as a SNCO while not in military status ???

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If the powers to be trying to make this change want me to be in uniform everyday, give me points towards retirement, pay me my military wage ( which is more than my civilian pay),and allow me to retire after twenty years (instead of thirty), drawing my retirement as soon as I retire, instead of waiting till age 60. Oh wait a minute sounds like Active Duty doesn’t it. There are many benefits and entitlements that Active-duty enjoy, and there are many benefits and entitlements that ART’s enjoy why try to erode or blend these benefits ???

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Active duty are forbidden from wearing the miltary uniform, when performing "off-duty" employment (ie, civilian)....IAW 36-2903, pg. 9, Table 1.3. So why is this issue any different? Furthermore, for an Air Reserve Technician..."wear of the uniform while performing duty in a civil service status is at the OPTION of the INDIVIDUAL; commanders CANNOT require members to wear the uniform while in this status." (IAW 36-2903, pg. 152, Table 6.1) Yes...the reg's can be changed to protect the egoes that this current regulation is offending, but it does not make it righ. Also, in the same table it states that ANG technicians wear the uniform voluntarily WITHOUT a uniform allowance! They are NOT required to wear the uniform...they just don't have a union!!!!

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This makes as much sence as the last uniform changes for service dress.

The money wasted on all the useless ideas could be spent on recovery of our citizens from poverty and storms.

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A deployable civilian workforce in uniform able to be sent anywhere around the globe in a moments notice. The changes directed in the proposed changes to Air Force Instructions takes the leap DOD has not been able to obtain under the legally challenged NSPS by further blurring of what the ART program was originally created for.

A civilian workforce that could take its wealth of experience to the active component by activating a special cadre of Reserve Forces.

The problem the Air Force now sees is that this cadre of highly skilled Reserve Components perform their vital work as civilians under negotiated work rules by the unions that represent them.

The take aways are not being replaced with the benefits the active component and AGR's recieve. The training limitations and career advancement that have limited the ART's are not being removed.

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I agree with most.But most of all, if the ART's are required to where a uniform, then they should also get all the benifits that go with the uniform, Pay, Medical, Leave, and Time off just to mention a few.

Uniforms are for airmen, soldiers and sailors, NOT for civilian Techs. Unless as stated about if you wish to then make the benifits the same.

For many years there were many more ART's then there were agr's, there was no issue with how was in charge and what rank soemone was wearing. In fact ART's were moch more respected then they are now. Making them put on a uniform proves nothing and does nothing to improve the mission readiness. And that is the reason we are here!

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I am a ART with over 24 years of service, 4 active, 20 as a ART. I have been a supervisor since 2000. I have been a SMSGT for two years. If I wanted to wear the uniform all the time I woulod of stayed Active. If the higher ups wanted us to look military all the time they should not of created civil servants. We reservist step up to the plate more than our share when needed, why would they put this on us when the majority of us do not want it. If they do how about letting us retire at 20 like active duty, pay for uniform cleaning and everything else like that since we will fall under UMCJ when in uniform. I personally will look for a straight civil service job if this passes.

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What we have been wearing has worked since the ART program’s inception, but now it's not good enough because a few officers need to hear the words "yes sir" and "no sir" when they get to work in the morning, or don’t like it when a civilian tells they are incorrect. Meanwhile the worker bees will get nothing in return - no pay increase, no paid medical, no military promotions testing, no rank, no cost of living increase, and no respect. Why don't ARTS (the civilian employees) just pay the federal government for the privilege of wearing a uniform every day, shaving, getting more haircuts, pretending to be on active duty, and all the rest? I'm glad I only have a few years to go!

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As an Art in an associate wing, putting the Arts in uniform would cause more problems than it would solve. We would be held accountable for dress and appearance as well as customs and courtesies according to the applicable AFIs and probably subject to punishment under the UCMJ. We will have to obey the orders of those appointed above us whether the task is in our position description or not. The want us to conduct ourselves as members of the military without the benefits of being in the military. Our rank will mean nothing. We could and probably will end up working for someone we outrank either by the rank itself or by time in grade. This change will unravel the very fabric the military system is based on. Unit cohesiveness will cease to exist and that is the very point this change is supposed to establish. Who works for who?

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Has any one thought about the added expense to the Arts? Additional cleaning bills for the uniforms. Additional haircuts and polish for boots as well as shaving necessities for the men.

As a WG-10, I am a wrench turner, but as a reservist I am a MSgt. How will me turning wrenches wearing MSgt stripes add to the continuity and good order and discipline this change is supposed to bring?

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1. The military uniform is designed for wear in a military status. An ART does not represent that status as a civilian. ARTS do not always represent the rank that their wearing. EX…..WG-10 Mechanic, wearing the uniform as a MSGT. This would be a conflict in an Associate wing when wage grade ARTS generally work for active duty SSgt's and TSgt's. This could also be a conflict in the work area as the MSgt would be performing duties otherwise not indented for a manager whom the MSgt stripe represents. When that uniform is worn the individual has a duty to represent himself accordingly. If he is a MSGT or SMSgt he should be performing the duties of that rank, otherwise he would be "out of uniform". Top three promotions may be held back from ARTS due to the fact that they are not a supervisor during their civilian duty. This would be detrimental to the promotion process in general because ARTS would feel their would be no opportunity for PEP after the rank of TSgt.

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Here's an interesting fact I recently learned from a friend who works in the ANG; People who are full time in the Air National Guard have to wear uniforms everyday even though they are in civilian status. This is because they work for the state and it's in their contract (not that I feel this is right). Furthermore, they do not earn retirement points on those days nor do they get free health care. They get the same sub-par retirement that we ART's do. They are also NOT subject to the UCMJ. Can someone explain to me how that makes sense and how that enforces discipline ? If you can't hold someone accountable while in uniform, they why do it in the first place ? If they decide to throw the ART's in uniform, how could they put us under the UCMJ if we are in civilian status ? I truly wonder why AFRC leadership thinks this is such a necessity.

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The statement, “the need for continuity and good order and discipline…" implies that ARTs are aimless, unruly, and undisciplined. This is offensive. Also, many regulations govern civil servant behavior on and off the job. Mandating civilians to wear the uniform does not enhance those regulations. Why should ARTs support this policy when there's no additional pay; benefits; promotion potential; probable loss of bargaining rights; subjection to military dress/appearance standards, customs, courtesies, and possible UCMJ action? Converting between statuses is an administrative process and has to be complied with. It has to do with pay, benefits etc, not what garments are worn. Those in AFRC who want to see military uniforms should join Active Duty

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UCMJ- Lots of issues here. Dress and appearance……Some employees prefer to grow a neatly trimmed beard in between UTA's. Some employees prefer to wear shorts in the summer.

How will an employee be punished if he she fails adhere to any aspect of the UCMJ. They are still in civilian status.

3. ARTS are expected to wear the uniform for what reason? Professionalism? It takes more than a military uniform to make someone a professional. Most ARTS are appalled at the fact that they are labeled as unprofessional when not wearing a military uniform. Conflict…..Why WOULD an active duty service member have a conflict or an issue working side by side with someone NOT in uniform? As stated above, we are all professionals regardless of what we wear.

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The uniform I received, states"…Military technicians of the National Guard are required to wear the military uniform at all times…." The National Guard is required to wear the uniform because they fall under Title 10. The UCMJ does not apply to us as a civilian. As a civilian we would be impersonating a military member. The guard receives dental/medical insurance, housing allowance and their 20 year retirement just like the military. They also receive Clothing allowance.

It is not fair to us civilian who has a civilian ID card and when we wear our uniforms the gate guard wants to see your military ID. This falls again impersonating a military member while being a civilian.

By wearing the military uniform we have to follow the UCMJ, but if a civilian is a GS-9, and wear the uniform as Tech sergeant and works in a office with a GS-7 and that person is a MSgt, that would not be fair to the GS-9 who will have to listen to someone who outranks them by wearing the uniform but not civilian.

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4. At what cost - Many feel that the money spent putting civilians in uniform's could be spent more wisely. That money could be spent on lowering the age at which a service member collects retirement. Even though an ART would be required to wear the uniform, he or she does not reap the benefits of an active duty member. Retirement at 20 years, full medical benefits, space A travel without restrictions, etc…..

Most of us feel that wearing a uniform is not an issue, but not the military uniform. The military uniform should not be worn by someone whom is not in a military status. A uniform such as the ones worn by most transit alert employees would be very appropriate for all aircraft mechanics.

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As an ART, this change would require me to wear my miltary uniform during the week as a non-combatant. I carry a CIVILIAN ID card through the week. Not a military ID. My job through the week is to work on military aircraft. My job on the weekends is to train Reserve members. When I'm on military orders I am performing a duty to support of some type of military mission. I may not have the same supervisor I would have during the week as a civilian.

AIR FORCE LAW REVIEW winter 2005

"A good example of how the distinction between noncombatants and civilians can become blurred is the civilian air reserve technician program used by the U.S. Air Force. An air reserve technician (ART) is a civilian employee who is a member of the Air Force Reserves or Air National Guard. . Any observer seeing uniformed ART personnel working on military aircraft would logically assume they are combatants, although they are actually civilians under the law of war who may not engage in combat until converted to active duty status."

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I left active duty after 2 years, I did not like the control placed on me while in uniform. I joined the reserves and I liked the way they did business. One thing I liked was the ARTs worked in civilian clothing. After three months I was convinced to become an ART, and that was 30 years ago. I have enjoyed doing my job for the USAFR. I can honestly say that if I were forced to wear the uniform thirty years ago I would not be working here today. And last but not least if I am forced to put on the uniform with out being compensated for it I won’t work here much longer. No one in leader ship talked with the employees or discussed this issue to see how we felt about wearing the uniform. I hope the union has some control over this issue and can stop this from happening.

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According to the letter from HQ AFRC this change is being considered because " That chain of command is essential to the proper order and discipline associated with our mission and deployments." The chain of command will be ignored if we wear the uniform since our rank will mean nothing in an associate wing. The active duty rank will be all that means anything.

Also in the letter " An ART performs the same duties whether in civilian or military status." That is an untrue statement. Some of us move into higher positions as military. I am a WG-10 civilian working as a jet engine mechanic but I am a MSgt in the military and I supervise a shop. S

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This stands as yet another upper echelon exercise in fatuousness, irrelevancy and superficiality [which of course, hardly sets precedent].

The proposed change serves no substantive purpose and offers no practical benefit.

At a time when many of us are in the context of BRAC, fighting to maintain our livelyhoods and continuity of support FOR OUR RESPECTIVE FAMILIES [with virtually no assistance from, nor concern for our plights from 'management', I might add] and enduring varying amounts of stress secondary to the same, this fatuousness will only serve to add an additional component of UNNECESSARY stress to our lives.

I have seen people who are beginning to crack, in my own work environment, as a direct consequence of that which I have described - these HARDLY need even more stress unnecessarily imposed by MANAGEMENTALLY DERIVED SUPERFICIALITY AND FATUOUSNESS, for a change which represents nothing more than mere 'eyewash'.

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This policy would not work at associate units. Those that active duty, arts, civilian, and traditional reservist co-exist.

Currently at these particular units, the Air Reserve Technicin Forces are under the direct supervision of active duty personnel. If these ARTS are required to wear the uniform, in most cases, they would in fact, "out rank" these supervisors. If this were to happen, what protocol are we to follow?...Will these ARTS then become the supervisors?....If so, will they be made governmental supervisors as well?...Pay and rating increase?....Or will you have a case where a SSGT will be supervising a MSGT or a SMSGT?....Our civilian ranks remain the same unless the duty poition is changed, but the military ranks do increase sometimes....

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We are the ones that the military calls on in times of crisis; the ones that carry active duty; the ones who deploy overseas instead of backfilling here in the U.S. as the reserves were intended to do. We can't be diabetic. We will get kicked out. Active duty; no problem. My last mil physical, I had a psychiatrist put me on a profile 3, for an orthopedic issue. After 22 years of service, the medical condition that I now have is threatening my whole livelihood. Active duty; no problem. Bottom line: If you want us to wear the uniform 24/7, give us our benefits!

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I have 26 year federal service. I have 4 years Active t activations under my belt. 10 years civil service for the Navy and 11 years as a ART.I have been through a very tough and demanding RIF due to BRAC. I witnessed several of my friends die as a result of the stress that comes from going through the BRAC Process. I would rather not wear the uniform but if I can avoid ever going through the BRAC CRAP again and that means wearing the uniform, I would wear the uniforn. I do not believe that the wearing of the uniform will create a more professional atmosphere. The people that are in the units make or break the unit, wearing the uniform will have little or no impact on this. We need to work at being the best that we can be in or out of the uniform. We have created he atmosphere that we work and live in. We try to blame everything on someone else and we do not take responsiblity for our own action.

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I can't attest to whether this is true or not but I was breifed at an official forum that the uniform push came about because a couple of guys met a general's aircraft looking like they had been "partying all night" (beard, earrings, long hair, t-shirt and shorts, etc.) which he was unhappy with and then he went ballistic when he found out that they were actually NCO ARTs.

The fight is just beginning but, if it turns out that the union can't defeat the uniform, then as an alternative maybe it can deflect the issue toward some kind of appearance standards for all civilian employees. It's the lesser of two evils, as it were, because most of us don't want to wear a military uniform in civilian status and I personally don't want to be an AGR but most of us probably already abide by some self-imposed basic appearance standards anyway.

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There are far too many negative aspects to having a Civilian Employee (ART) wear the uniform every day.If I am in Civilian Status, wearing the uniform, and I am involved in an accident and am rendered incapable of telling medical responders where to take me for treatment, will it be assumed that because I am in uniform that I am in military status and I will be taken to the nearest Military Medical treatment facility? It is my understanding that the reason why it is desired that ARTs wear the uniform is to appear "seamless" with the rest of the "force". Let's use the correct word, shall we? INVISIBLE is the correct word. This is NOT just a job or a career for ARTs, it's a "calling" and we are here because we care and have volunteered to be here, despite the low salary's and the tremendous work load. ARTs are a BARGAIN by any means and any way you look at it.

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My feeling is that if they want to pay me active duty SSGT pay and benefits, I'll wear my uniform; also if they want a dress code (Civilian attire) we should get clothing allowence money for that too.

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As a former Air Force active duty member and now a full-time Air Reserve Technician (ART), I am greatly concerned about this issue. If you are not familiar with the ART program, in short Air reserve technicians carry dual status, working as full-time civil service employees for the Air Force and as military members in the same AFRC units where they work as civilians performing the same job. In their civilian role, ART's provide full-time support throughout the month for their units. In AFRC, ART's participate with other reservists to train them on weekends and annual active-duty tours.

As a federal civilian employee, the civilian rights enjoyed since the ART programs’ existence is in jeopardy. The Air Force Reserve commander wants to change the regulations to make it mandatory for ART's (Federal Civilian Employees) to wear the military uniform in civilian status. By making the wear of the military uniform mandatory for the Air Force civilian...continued--

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This will affect close to 10,000 Air Force civil service employees. Many of us, me included, were prior active duty members who wanted to transition to more of a civilian lifestyle but still wanted to have an active role in our Nation's defense. The implementation of this would have a dramatic effect on our morale...this is certainly not the time for this. The latest update I have received is an implementation date of June 1, 2007.

WE CAN NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!!!

Thank you for your support,

Mark Winstead, MSgt USAFR

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Clearly the author of this memo is a straight civil servant and has no idea what its like to be a Technician. I would like to respond to some of the points made in the memo.

1. In para 4, my own area (aircraft maintenance, though the aircraft part is implied) is apparently the cause of the whole ART program being made to wear their uniforms. I wasn't aware of any "good order and discipline" problems in my community, despite deploying with other units, both Guard and Reserve, and being in an Associate unit for 12 years now.

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I happen to be the ranking person on the weekend, but I am not senior on the civilian side. In addition, the Active Duty production supervisors I work for during the week were Staff Sergeants when I was promoted to MSgt. Am I to "kick" them out of their jobs because I outrank them by wearing a uniform every day like they do? But wait, I'm just a WG-10, where they would be more like a WS-10 in the civilian world. I don't have the civilian position to do their job. So where does that put me? It puts me in a MSgt's uniform in civilian status, being given work assignments by a TSgt or sometimes even a SSgt.

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Good order and discipline? How so?

2. In para 5, I'm lost. All the changes in status have nothing to do with what clothes you are wearing. Obviously, if you must be on Active Duty orders to do a mission, you put the uniform on and work with your timekeeper to figure out a way to be on leave from the civilian side. Putting the uniform on changes nothing, we're still bound by civilian work rules and time and attendance regs.

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The reference to aircrews flying into the AOR is really pointless because one of the AFI's in the Subject line (36-2903) already states that ARTs whose duties involve flying on military aircraft must wear their military uniform, and has for as long as I can remember. Makes the author look like he doesn't know what's in the very AFI's AFRC wants to change.

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3. In para 6, the precedent for wearing uniforms in civilian status is offered. Would we also be able to do some other things the Guard can do? Like gather intelligence (spy) on American persons, or participate in anti-drug missions? These are both things that Active Duty can't even do because they, like us are FEDERAL, not State. Although there are no ART firefighters that I know of, they do wear a uniform in civilian status. But they also are entitled to a 20 year retirement.

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Personally, I think AFRC wants us to wear the uniform, but doesn't want to compensate us for what it takes to wear it. Its not just a different set of clothes, its a set of responsibilities that have to be taken on. Beyond the haircuts and who is going to pay for all those new and replacement uniforms, (I've learned that the Air Force always has money for this stuff, remember Aircrew Style Name Patches and Navy style offficer rank?) you open yourself up to a lot of situations a civilian employee shouldn't have to. Lets say I'm at my base, where there are lots of Active Duty personnel.

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Lets say I'm at my base, where there are lots of Active Duty personnel. I'm walking across a parking lot, and a young airman is walking toward me without a hat or with his hands in his pockets or talking on a cell phone, etc. As a SNCO, oops, I mean civilian employee disguised as a SNCO, I stop him and correct him. Lets say he doesn't appreciate it, and argues with me. What recourse is there? He's not disrespecting an NCO, because I'm not in military status, right? Lets say I just ignore him, and an officer sees me not correct the airman.

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Now the officer is going to want to know why someone who looks like a SNCO didn't correct an obvious discrepancy. How do you explain that one away? Again, I'm not in a military status, so I guess the officer couldn't touch me either.

I have yet to find an ART who thinks wearing the uniform every day is a good idea, and its not because they don't want to shave or cut their hair. Its because civilian clothes let everyone know that you are a technician there to get a certain job done. Period. Its worked well for the last nearly 50 years, and I don't see a need to change it.

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I'm as proud of my uniform as the next guy, but with the recent military cut backs, who is going to give provide money to properly maintain them with laundry, to keep them serviceable, and such. with my dwindling monitary income, while we are expected to pay for every thing else, like dental, and medical, Which congress also expects us to maintain, but,at the same time they are giving no extra funds to accomplish this feat, we have our military medical doctors ordering us to maintain ourmedical and dental status. but themselves can't perform the procedures, I'm very much against the wear of a uniform while in civilian status, unless they provide a tax free clothing allowance like active duty.

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ARTs in Uniform While Civilian Status:

This has raised a few questions in my mind:

Currently, while in uniform, we gain points per day toward our reserve retirement. How will this affect that?

If we are put into military status, (AGR) will our civil service time bridge on toward retirement?

For those of us with enough combined time to retire immediately, will we be able to do so, and will we receive our retirement benefits immediately?

When we are in uniform, will we have the same status as our military rank or our civilian pay-grade? e.g. As a TSGT, we are authorized to serve as a flightline expeditor, element chief, asst shift supervisor. As a WG-10, we are not authorized to do any of those things.

If we are put on military status, it would not be fair to throw out all our civil service time and not count it toward retirement. I think these things need to be ironed out before making a change that affects the entire work force to this extent.

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Re: Memorandum 18 Apr 07, To: John Gage from Steve Mann(dir. Man & Pers) ARTs DO NOT perform the same duty whether in mil or civ status. In mil status, many of us are supervisors, I am the NCOIC of my shop during the my UTA. In uniform, I expect the same rights, privileges, pay, and yes...responsibilities, due my rank. I outrank every active duty person in my shop. In civ status, I am a WG-10, a worker/trainer for personnel assigned to my shop, regardless of status. Basically, a well trained drone. I'm not paid, nor am I allowed, to perform any supervisory duties. If you want me to perform in a supervisory role, either promote me or activate me. SPAN class=error SPAThe labor that I currently perform is not commensurate with the rank of a MSGT.

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Why not concentrate on having all reserve component members become eligible for retirement at age 55 instead of focusing on meaningless policy change like mandatory wear of the uniform!

PRespectfully submitted & a proud member of the "Alamo WIng" whose civilian ancestors did not require uniforms to defend the cause of liberty, e.g., Juan Abamillo, James Bowie, David Crockett, Gregorio Esparza, WIlliam Phillip King, to name a few.

dl

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I do not see a reason to echo what everyone else has said here, because I agree with every post. What I did not see is someone posting about Active Duty questioning why ART's "GET TO" wear shorts and T-shirt's on the flight line while they are sweating thier behinds off in uniform. I remember folks complaining about this while on Active Duty, which is why I became an ART. Now it seems to be coming full circle----Back on Active Duty MINUS benefits!!

Pay me like an Active Duty MSgt with all the benefits and 20 year retirement, and I'll gladly wear whatever those appointed over me ask me to for my last year.

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As an expediter, it is essential that I know who is active duty and who is a civilian. I manage them by two different sets of rules as far as breaks, time off, and overtime. Currently, with anybody in unifrom I do not have to worry about working them a couple of minutes late, or giving them their one hour lunch break according to the union contract. We do have a lot of personell changes and expediters change frequntly from day to day. It would make it impossible to manage people according to their contract. Getting to know your people is not the answer because personell change too often and often an expediter is taken from the ranks. This would open us up to too many greivences.

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I have been an ART now for 2 yrs. I am retired active duty and there is a noticeable difference. 1. Benefits; make the same as active duty. 2. Status; UCMJ at all times? Respect is given when I am addressed as Mr. La Chance, not TSgt. My opinion means more as a civilian than it does a mid level NCO.AD Mgmt talks to you as a human when in civilian clothes as opposed to a sub- servant wrench turner who is not the same in grade. Will leave be the same as active Duty? Will my pay increase? A TSgt over 23 makes more!! Horrible idea, it will crush a good thing and exert total control and cancel all say so, sort of like communism!

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Sir,

I am a Air Reserve Technican. I spent 6 years and 8 months on active duty. If I wanted to wear the uniform every day I would of stayed active duty and been drawing a active duty pay check for over 10 years now. Unlike the guard, we are not active duty and should not be made to wear our uniform in our civilian jobs, nor do we get a clothing allowance or active duty pay check or benefits.

Sincerely

Donna Bursley

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I know that their is more than 38 ARTs in the work force, If you don't

voice your concerns now , you can't complain about it later..........

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How does ART's wearing a uniform affect our status as "bargaining unit employees"? Can an officer or senior enlisted person direct an ART to do something without going through the employees supervisor?

In my shop, the ART with the least civilian seniority is a MSgt. While the ART with the most seniority is a TSgt. And the ART in between is a SSgt. Who directs who? Does military rank prevail whle in uniform even though we are in civilian status? Can we be ordered to stay past the end of our scheduled shift without being offereed the option of overtime?

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My items of interest that I would like to be brought to light from National are as follows:

1. what will be the permanent supervisional structure for us in uniform?

2. How will this affect us on haircuts? Are we responsible for the cost? Will we be reimbursed? It is not necessary to get a haircut unless we are in military status.

3. Will the allotment for uniforms be more lenient on obtaining uniforms? (i.e. no hassles of how often since these will be ruined during a civilian work day.

4. Will we be allotted to have a laundry service allotment since we will be utilizing the uniforms on a daily routine? (i.e. civilian allotment?)

5. Will we be reprimanded on a civilian side or military side in uniform on civilian status?

6. Will our daily civilian duty in uniform affect our military career in the way of reprimanding? Since we are in uniform where does it cutoff?

Just some questions I have that I think are valid.

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I disagree that ARTs should have to wear the uniform while on civ status. I'm not apposed to wearing it. I wear it proudly when on UTA's & Orders. But we are different than AD. If we were the same we wouldn't be having this issue. .Wearing the uniform has always been a sign of being on AD. When worn in the Res & we were paid accordingly. When we aren't in uniform, we're paid as civ, rated as civ & given awards as civ. None of the military rules apply for pay, leave, appraisals etc. Some would say, what is the big deal, it is just clothes. I guess the big deal is what the uniform represents. & to most it is service in the military, ACTIVE DUTY military.

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I am not one who typically rocks the boat but I definitely have issues with the policy change. Here are my reasons:

The letter states we have a need for “good order and discipline”. This will do the exact opposite. I am a TSGT in my military capacity and a WG-10 in civilian status. My PD says that I am basically a “worker bee”. It does not say anything about supervisory duties. If I wear my uniform to work every day I will be required to act as a supervisor to many of the active duty airman that I work with. As a worker bee I work on airplanes. Active duty personnel of my same grade supervise. This is extremely apparent with our ARTS that are MSgt’s that tote tool boxes right along side AMN and A1C’s. This will undermine the whole Active Duty maintenance operation!

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And with AD we get benefits...medical that doesn't cost an arm & a leg like is does on the civ side, 2.5 days of LV every mo whether you have been in for 1 mo or 10 yrs, & sick leave isn't chargeable (6 wks of maternity LV), not so on the civ side. You'd have to take 6 wks of LV that you have accumulated or go in a LOWP status. So when you discuss the idea of having the ARTs wear the uniform all the time, realized what you are telling them...we require you to look, act, & convince everyone you are just like the AD but we are not going to pay you, compensate you, or retire you like AD. We just want you to look like them. It's a touchy subject & something you might want to really reconsider. Also, many others have brought up many other issues, for example the cost.

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How many of you wear the same clothes for a week or a couple of days in a row? Do you expect the ARTS to wear there uniform for a week because they have only been issued 1 or two sets. Does that sound reasonable? Is AFRC going to come up with the funds to get this off the ground then change uniforms again & spend tons of money to get the ARTs up to speed with who...ACTIVE DUTY. I can see why AFRC would want to do this but if you want the AD rules to apply, then just turn us all into AGR's. I don't think you will hear too much argument to wear the uniform then. Because we will be getting what the rest of the people (AD) are getting that wear there uniform...the benefits.

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Questions concerning the ART force: See Followinig email 2 part:

1. While in uniform am I placed under the Uniform Code of Justice (UCMJ) or as a federal worker am I placed under the rights of redress for adverse actions that may occur at work?

2. If I am in uniform will I be compensated as a civilian or military?

3. As an ART in uniform and in civilian status, I will be wearing my uniform more frequently. Will I be allowed to use the clothing allowance stipulated for military reserve under the wear and tear guidelines or will we recieve compensation for uniform cleaning?

4. While I am in uniform and am accidently injured will I recieve medical assistants and care through the military medical process or will I still have to carry and use civilian medical health care insurance?

5. Will my family and I recieve medical health care benefits when needed through the military or will I have to carry and use civilian medical/health benefits?

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5. While I am in uniform and am accidently injured will I recieve medical assistants and care through the military or will I still have to carry and use civilain medical/health insurance?

6. In case of death while in uniform on civilian status will our military life insurance be in effect versus civilian or will both be in effect?

7. Will our survivors benefits change from civilian to military?

8. Will our retirement benefits change from militay versus civilian?

These are just a few in question and as you can see, this can become very costly for our government as well as all ART's.

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Comment:

As an ART I cannot see any real justified reason for ART's wearing uniform's while on civilian status. If the question is appearance, all ART's take pride in there dress dependent on the job they have been hired for. My experience observing ART's dress and appearance in several area's of civilian employment has been admirable. In civilian status ART's have always taken pride in proper dress and appearance. Dress codes have been adhered to. If it is a question of work ethic and doing our job, all ART's have understood that it is easier to work in military uniform with military active duty as well as easier to work with civilian's in civilian dress when negotiating a work project. Commonality nine time's out of ten is one of the keys to a succesful work project. So I must ask, is there valid justified reason why ART's should wear military uniforms or is this a control based issue placing ART's under UCMJ, stripping away civilian due process?

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Note that the verbage states "a uniform", not "military uniform"; big difference. If I were employed in a position that required a certain uniform to mitigate workplace hazards, then I would happily oblige. However, the "nature of my work" does not require any additional protection than my PPE affords on a day-to-day basis.

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The statement in paragraph 4, “The need to ensure good order and military discipline in the maintenance function is even more apparent”,

Has anyone considered that this statement is not so much for the ART workforce, but the active duty that have a Reserve associate unit that they have to work beside?

That maybe some of the pressure to get us in uniform coming from them?

What is the new term they're pushing now? "One Air Force"

Cheers

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AFGE's response to AFRC did not work...The Reserve Command announced last week their decision to go ahead and implement the mandatory wear of the uniform for ART's in civilian status. Here is the meeting minutes from AFRC HQ during last Friday's (July 6) meeting:

CIVILIAN:

Item 1: ART Uniform (Ms. Laurel Jacobs, A1CE, 327-1300)

3 Jul 07: National Consultation Rights (NCR) process with national unions complete. National

unions advised 20 Jun 07 of AFRC decision to implement uniform policy. AF-wide labor

relations call (with MAJCOM LR POCs) scheduled for 10 Jul 07. In the next 30 days, AFI

interim changes will be finalized by AFPC, AF-wide communication plan will be finalized, AFwide

labor relations bargaining strategy will occur, and guidance to the field finalized. Target

implementation date, 1 Aug 07. AFRC/A1CE (Ms. Laurel Jacobs) is the lead for this initiative.

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That is exactly why you should not give your hard earned money away to the UNIONS. The #1 power and right a union has is stricking which we as government employees gave up when we were hired.

Save your money!!!!!! Government unions are and will always be in bed with management.

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There is another problem with ART's in uniform. They (if they are Union Officers or Stewards) are denied the right to carry on Union business while in uniform. So which set of rules do we follow are they covered under the UCMJ or the rules for Civilian DOD workers?

Case in point the Chief Steward and 2 other Stewards in Local 2568 are ARTs.

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I can not believe that this is still being debated. This week at lackland non bargaining Unit Employees were told that they are to start wearing their uniforms.

So, as of this week, our Supervision has complied and AFGE is still in negotiations with the Military. WOW!

Can I remind someone in this Government as well as AFGE that this action as the laws are written now violate our constitutional rights and provisions as CIVILIANS working FOR DOD and not AFRC.

In uniform we will have to follow certain military laws on uniform wear and behavior.

Unless this law changes we will be made to follow them or be subjected to the UCMJ.

Subjecting the Civilians to the UCMJ.. Can you say Class Action waiting to happen.

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BOTTOM LINE: THE WEAR OF THE UNIFORM WILL NOT CHANGE THE JOB. IT WILL HOWEVER COST THE TAX PAYERS MORE $$$ DUE TO UNIFORM COST; BOTH INITIALLY AND IN ANNUAL CLOTHING ALLOWANCES!

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As a Union Representative at the 943rd RQS here in Tucson we are working with Senators Kyle,Giffords, and McCain on the issue of the wearing of our Air Force Reserve uniform while on civilian duty status. We want to hear from Union lawyers in Washington.On monday September 10th a letter will be forwarded to one of our senators here in Arizona asking for help in making an inquiry to the Air Force Reserve as to the requirement for "forcing" the civilians to don a uniform during civilian duty.We have been proud of our committment and association with both the civilian world and the Reserve.When asked,what I do for a living,I reply" I am a Civil Service Reservist". I have never said I am a Reservist,slash Civil Service Person.There are obvious reasons the Air Force Reserve is changing. The blinders are off. The war stress is on to the tune of a few billion dollars a week. The Reserve wants a back door draft.

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